Curse

Shakkara · Jul 24, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

No, my experience as game designer and the analysis of the problems that many MMO's economies face nowadays is what made think of a better system to solve all those problems.

And if you properly used those items, they would have been customized in the first place, to receive the bonus.

Bithor the Dog · Jul 24, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

**shakes head**.
It seems that you dont get the "laws" of trading. If i WANT to sell at X price and someone WANTS to buy it, thats the deal. Being forced out of choice because of YOUR moralities , that maybe dont fit mine or the traders, is something i find abhorent.

Who are you or any other designer for that matter to tell me how i should and shouldnt do business and trade. If I want to make a profit of Virtual GW gold, that is up to me. not you! just beacuse someone has taken the time to go out and get it and sell it at whatever price then get same item sold higher price doesnt make them a parasite, it means they are willing to sell at a higher price, work for it, spam trade for it or auction it. if YOU dont that is your problem no one elses.

Come down out of the ivory tower for a moment, because you aint any higher up than the rest of GW players!

Id LOVE to see the stock market work like this....oh dont worry we will sell it on at what we bought it for, thats ok with you isnt it mister stocks buyer!.. you dont mind do you?
Tha market would crash worldwide in a few days with your theory. The market in GW's by comparison is a buy/sell market.
If you arnt willing to work to sell it, tough luck on you. if you want to sell it at a lower price and someone sells higher, good luck to em. losing sleep like this over virtual gold will make your hair fall out ya know...seems like your getting stressed over this as its just a game ...go play it
Again
/NOT signed

Yawgmoth · Jul 24, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

/NOT signed

This idea makes no sense, it's like a bad nerf to trading. It doesn't help anyone, makes things much worse for some and in fact would make things harder to find for anyone. Traders and resellers in GW actually make things easier to find, potential finders of items aren't usually interested in trading stuff. In your suggested system getting good stuff would be all about great deals with finders, no secondary market, utter nonsense.

Want prices low and fair - just have a centralized trading system for fair competition between traders and easier information about prices for everyone.

Loviatar · Jul 24, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakkara

Explain how it would collapse the economy. And how only the botters have a supply. There wouldn't be fewer items in circulation then there are right now. Actually, supply INCREASES, as there is noone that hoards valuable items to drive up the prices. Thus prices lower and items become more available. Simple economics. All of you panic people with your "oh noes this will ruin the game" do not come up with any logic or reasoning, it's just thin air and fear for change.

i will use small simple words and maybe you will see the light.

you sell or trade the item and thats it.

CUSTOMIZED

you find some better drop or run out of storage space and you have only 2 choices
SALVAGE IT OR SELL TO MERCHANT AND IT IS GONE AND THE SUPPLY STARTS GETTING SMALLER NOT BIGGER
if everybody gets an automatically customized item at any level in the game from common low to special high it is taken out of the food chain at that point AND CAN NOT BE PASSED ON DOWN THE LINE OR SOLD AGAIN

supply vanishes price explodes

Snow Bunny · Jul 24, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Shakkara.
May I suggest, that instead of stubbornly defending your apparently bad idea, heed the overwhelming feedback on this thread and drop the issue.
It's not a good idea, for the reasons outlined above, but beyond that, you're not strengthening your position by offering poorly formulated arguments otherwise.
It'd be in your favor to attempt to realize exactly why it's perhaps not a good suggestion (for the reasons previously stated) and conceivably come to agree.
At the very least, it'd be a bit more admirable than lashing out at those that disagree with you.

populationcontrol · Jul 24, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

so, i think he has a point. this game is plagued with "parasites" over eager to purchase things from people who dont know better at 1/3 of its actual price. i made my fortune exploiting this greed but will not go into details, but there is a sort of ugliness to the whole trading and ill intentions behind it. i however dont agree that that system would lower prices but raise them, but i want that. high prices means farming where you spend 2 hours reaching the boss you want to kill <(90% of other bosses drops are deemed worthless and worth 1k), if you kill him he may or may not be holding the drop, if he is he may or may not drop it, if he does theres only a 1/5 chance its for you. so you could potentially spend 4 hours farming and not make any money (not to mention how hard it is to sell stuff now). i think this at least would make it more worthwile to spend that amount of time if theres actually a substancial reward. though maybe having some npc that would offer more than the 27 gs for average 50k weapon would make life so much easier, i dont farm but peasants shouldnt go hungry.

korcan · Jul 24, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

if people want to spend all day in a major outpost or on guru looking for deals just to resell, let them. some people enjoy accumulating massive amounts of virtual wealth via "power trading", i dont really know why but they do.

sure it may be at the expense of some noob or just someone that wants to quickly sell an item but its not going away and gaile has already stated that other then further "trade improvements" [which i gather are tweaks to party search] were not getting a redesign or overhaul of our current trading system.

your suggestion is a little over the top though.

Shakkara · Jul 24, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bithor the Dog

**shakes head**.
It seems that you dont get the "laws" of trading. If i WANT to sell at X price and someone WANTS to buy it, thats the deal. Being forced out of choice because of YOUR moralities , that maybe dont fit mine or the traders, is something i find abhorent.

Who are you or any other designer for that matter to tell me how i should and shouldnt do business and trade. If I want to make a profit of Virtual GW gold, that is up to me. not you!

Oh but I think it is perfecly fine for the developers to limit player action to improve overall player experience. It's for the developers to make rules, and the players have to abide by them, if they like it or not. I hear noone complaining that they can't kill eachother in towns either. That is a limitation the devs made. And a good limitation, as it improves player experience. My system is similar, it removes a bit of freedom, but it improves the overall game, as the freedom was misused to harm the community, and is in the way of implementing new features to the trading system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bithor the Dog

just beacuse someone has taken the time to go out and get it and sell it at whatever price then get same item sold higher price doesnt make them a parasite, it means they are willing to sell at a higher price, work for it, spam trade for it or auction it. if YOU dont that is your problem no one elses.

And look what happens if EVERYONE does that. There would be no new items anymore, just people selling the existing items at higher and higher prices, and all the gold would eventually be in the hands of small group of rich players. They do not work for it, as they do not contribute, not produce, not perform labour. They spend time, yes, but do not work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bithor the Dog

Come down out of the ivory tower for a moment, because you aint any higher up than the rest of GW players!

Id LOVE to see the stock market work like this....oh dont worry we will sell it on at what we bought it for, thats ok with you isnt it mister stocks buyer!.. you dont mind do you?
Tha market would crash worldwide in a few days with your theory. The market in GW's by comparison is a buy/sell market.
If you arnt willing to work to sell it, tough luck on you. if you want to sell it at a lower price and someone sells higher, good luck to em. losing sleep like this over virtual gold will make your hair fall out ya know...seems like your getting stressed over this as its just a game ...go play it
Again
/NOT signed

The stock market is a good example of something we SHOULDNT have in the game. Rich people not producing but running off with the money. Shareholders dictating companies policies to enrich themselves further, at the cost of the employees. Hedge funds ruining companies completely, sending thousands into unemployment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

/NOT signed

This idea makes no sense, it's like a bad nerf to trading. It doesn't help anyone, makes things much worse for some and in fact would make things harder to find for anyone. Traders and resellers in GW actually make things easier to find, potential finders of items aren't usually interested in trading stuff. In your suggested system getting good stuff would be all about great deals with finders, no secondary market, utter nonsense.

Want prices low and fair - just have a centralized trading system for fair competition between traders and easier information about prices for everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by korcan

if people want to spend all day in a major outpost or on guru looking for deals just to resell, let them. some people enjoy accumulating massive amounts of virtual wealth via "power trading", i dont really know why but they do.

sure it may be at the expense of some noob or just someone that wants to quickly sell an item but its not going away and gaile has already stated that other then further "trade improvements" [which i gather are tweaks to party search] were not getting a redesign or overhaul of our current trading system.

your suggestion is a little over the top though.

To you two,

That's why I'm suggesting this for Guild Wars 2, like I said in my opening post. Where there is still room for a whole new trading system, where people should have other options of trading besides the WTB/WTS spam, which preferably can be done while they continue production. Ingame auction systems or NPCs that sell items for the player would be fine. But only with the restriction that people cannot resell anything they buy off there, otherwise we'd get all the problems that plagued WoW's auction system and UO's vendor system, with people screwing over the player economy just to make a quick buck for themselves.

xiao1985 · Jul 25, 2007, 03:39 AM // 03:39

/not signed

guildwarsguru and guildwiki exist so that people are aware of the scams and price of commodities.

and buy low sell high is a common market practice. yes, I'm fully aware that a can of coke cost abit less than 10c to manufacture, but $1 to buy. it's all about how much buyer perceives the cost of the item.

Bithor the Dog · Jul 25, 2007, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Shakkara.
May I suggest, that instead of stubbornly defending your apparently bad idea, heed the overwhelming feedback on this thread and drop the issue.
It's not a good idea, for the reasons outlined above, but beyond that, you're not strengthening your position by offering poorly formulated arguments otherwise.
It'd be in your favor to attempt to realize exactly why it's perhaps not a good suggestion (for the reasons previously stated) and conceivably come to agree.
At the very least, it'd be a bit more admirable than lashing out at those that disagree with you.

THIS my friends is the best statement anyone has put in this thread.
Im outta here, I feel like im talking to a brick wall. The arguments put against vastly outweigh your arguments for a redesign of the trading system and yet you seem to think that bringing morality into it is a firm statement to jsutify your cause.
You are dead set on your idea, instead of listening to others and trying to re-formulate a solution you are being bull headed and refusing to change.
The vast opinion here is its a rubbish idea. and all you do is slate those opinions because they dont match yours exactly.

Fine go ahead....lets see one of your "moral" games then, give us an example of a game you have designed, seeing as you keep stating your a game designer, so that we can use this as comparison. If we could change GW for a day then it would be possible to compare logically.
We cant, so show us all what we could have please then we can decide if it will work or not. If you cant show us and that will include short and long term comparisons and statistical evidence of this system working in EVERY case, then I suggest that you forget this idea and go play the game. At very least act a bit more humble about the opinons people are taking the time to write and be a bit more accepting

Shakkara · Jul 26, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by xiao1985

/not signed

guildwarsguru and guildwiki exist so that people are aware of the scams and price of commodities.

How about new players and black dyes? I don't see a dye trader in old Ascalon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xiao1985

and buy low sell high is a common market practice. yes, I'm fully aware that a can of coke cost abit less than 10c to manufacture, but $1 to buy. it's all about how much buyer perceives the cost of the item.

There are various reasons for that. But if it happened in a game, and the price could be cut in half by removing middlemen that performed no labour but monopolize the market, and the removal of them is no big hinderance to players, I'm all for making game mechanics to render that practice impossible.

Shakkara · Jul 26, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bithor the Dog

THIS my friends is the best statement anyone has put in this thread.
Im outta here, I feel like im talking to a brick wall. The arguments put against vastly outweigh your arguments for a redesign of the trading system and yet you seem to think that bringing morality into it is a firm statement to jsutify your cause.

All of your arguments have already been rendered invalid by my counter-arguments, so I see no reason why they should outweigh mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bithor the Dog

You are dead set on your idea, instead of listening to others and trying to re-formulate a solution you are being bull headed and refusing to change.
The vast opinion here is its a rubbish idea. and all you do is slate those opinions because they dont match yours exactly.

Fine go ahead....lets see one of your "moral" games then, give us an example of a game you have designed, seeing as you keep stating your a game designer, so that we can use this as comparison. If we could change GW for a day then it would be possible to compare logically.
We cant, so show us all what we could have please then we can decide if it will work or not. If you cant show us and that will include short and long term comparisons and statistical evidence of this system working in EVERY case, then I suggest that you forget this idea and go play the game. At very least act a bit more humble about the opinons people are taking the time to write and be a bit more accepting

Unfortunately the games I have been working on recently are not MMOs, but I can prove my claims by setting up an Ultima Online server, I can reprogram that to test various setups, feel free to contact me if you're interested.

And I'm sure all the people that think this is a bad idea have not read my posts well or misinterpreted them. Let me say again: this system is necessairy to pave the way for a new trading system in Guild Wars 2, auction hall or otherwise, that will be exploited by traders and scammers, and monopolized by the rich few just as we have seen in World of Warcraft and Ultima Online, anyone can log in there and observe the hard FACTS of how players will exploit these systems if nothing is done about it, and how prices went up to grand a small share of players a profit.

Snow Bunny · Jul 26, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Close thread please.

OP needs to learn to address negative feedback in a constructive manner.

I probably fail in this, but I'm trying to be civil.

Shakkara, learn to bow before popular opinion. It's a good social grace to learn.

Bithor the Dog · Jul 26, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

LISTEN to opinion will you.

The opinions on here that you seek to lobby your idea are NOT there. Simply put NO one thinks its a good idea despite what you say or ask. UO is a completely different game altogether from GW. It has many many skills you can be or become and that relates to nothing in GW

I asked for a game YOU had designed. That is comparable to GW to test the ideas. You cant and havent come up with the goods to prove your theories especially as UO is a persistant world MMO and nothing like GW to be useful in a comparison.

And as for :
"All of your arguments have already been rendered invalid by my counter-arguments, so I see no reason why they should outweigh mine."

You asked for opinions in your orignal post.....you got them...you dont like them. They arent there to be countered all the time. the opinion is set...its not liked....and you are in a minority of one.
SUMO.....
Shut Up..Move On,.... I learnt that in a role as sales manager. Its used when your arguments have no further discussion points and dont hold any strength.
Listen to what other people have said for once and stop trying to say:
I have an idea...this is it, and if people dont like it then tough luck....thats what you sound like right now...
You havent been prepared to compramise, shift postitions, look at your arguments and change, give others consideration on there opinons, in any way.

MODS please shut this thread ASAP before it turns into a flame war or something is said. Its going rapidly off topic with no defference to the high opinons of others that this idea isnt liked

Fitz Rinley · Jul 27, 2007, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bithor the Dog

LISTEN to opinion will you.

The opinions on here that you seek to lobby your idea are NOT there. Simply put NO one thinks its a good idea despite what you say or ask. UO is a completely different game altogether from GW. It has many many skills you can be or become and that relates to nothing in GW

I will support the proposition, and because supporting it is morally correct. The idea that good business ethics is anything you can get away with and that individuals in business have no moral obligation to their fellows to be decent, ethical, and fair in all their practices is wrong:
1) Promotes anti-social self centeredness (as buyers learn that you the seller are a cheap hedonistic scam artist), and
2) Eliminates egality of play among those who should be equal in terms as having spent the same money for the same product (the game).

Quote:

I asked for a game YOU had designed. That is comparable to GW to test the ideas. You cant and havent come up with the goods to prove your theories especially as UO is a persistant world MMO and nothing like GW to be useful in a comparison.

This also is irrelevant argument as you are seeking a counter appeal to authority. The OP has experience GW and many other games. The OP has had the discussion on a professional level among those that actively participate in managing game rewards and player to player interaction. While the OP has not presented statistical data on the mechanisms and their effects, the reasoning is both morally and economically sound. The only counter reasoning has been based in "Because I wanna have power to exploit and scam for my own personal ego trip and who cares what happens to the other guy."

Quote:

You asked for opinions in your orignal post.....you got them...you dont like them. They arent there to be countered all the time. the opinion is set...its not liked....and you are in a minority of one.

I saw at least one other signed, and with me that ends the minority of one that was an invalid statement to begin with. Further, a minority of one who is morally correct is still more valuable than a majority who prefer tyranny, slavery, or exploitation of their fellow players at the expense of game enjoyment.

Quote:

You havent been prepared to compramise, shift postitions, look at your arguments and change, give others consideration on there opinons, in any way.

Why should one compromize with the morally bereft. My personal experience at the root of the American Economy (its transportation industry) is that there is absolutely nothing moral in it whatsoever. I have observed this from managers who risk the lives of their employees while violating the law to managers who insist you violate the law for their personal profit. I have seen it in all 48 states, more than a dozen employers over 20 years, and in every industry from food to furniture and housing.

Quote:

MODS please shut this thread ASAP before it turns into a flame war or something is said. Its going rapidly off topic with no defference to the high opinons of others that this idea isnt liked

But this idea is liked by anyone who wants to see a fair and moral behavior in the game with equal opportunity to express what one enjoys being in a style and manner that limit exploitation of players by Playas. And I am sorry if you decide any of this garment is cut to your fit, but not sorry enough to appologize if someone finds similarities between what I have said and themselves. If you are offended, perhaps it is true.

Snow Bunny · Jul 27, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

I will support the proposition, and because supporting it is morally correct. The idea that good business ethics is anything you can get away with and that individuals in business have no moral obligation to their fellows to be decent, ethical, and fair in all their practices is wrong:
1) Promotes anti-social self centeredness (as buyers learn that you the seller are a cheap hedonistic scam artist), and
2) Eliminates egality of play among those who should be equal in terms as having spent the same money for the same product (the game).

This also is irrelevant argument as you are seeking a counter appeal to authority. The OP has experience GW and many other games. The OP has had the discussion on a professional level among those that actively participate in managing game rewards and player to player interaction. While the OP has not presented statistical data on the mechanisms and their effects, the reasoning is both morally and economically sound. The only counter reasoning has been based in "Because I wanna have power to exploit and scam for my own personal ego trip and who cares what happens to the other guy."

I saw at least one other signed, and with me that ends the minority of one that was an invalid statement to begin with. Further, a minority of one who is morally correct is still more valuable than a majority who prefer tyranny, slavery, or exploitation of their fellow players at the expense of game enjoyment.

Why should one compromize with the morally bereft. My personal experience at the root of the American Economy (its transportation industry) is that there is absolutely nothing moral in it whatsoever. I have observed this from managers who risk the lives of their employees while violating the law to managers who insist you violate the law for their personal profit. I have seen it in all 48 states, more than a dozen employers over 20 years, and in every industry from food to furniture and housing.

But this idea is liked by anyone who wants to see a fair and moral behavior in the game with equal opportunity to express what one enjoys being in a style and manner that limit exploitation of players by Playas. And I am sorry if you decide any of this garment is cut to your fit, but not sorry enough to appologize if someone finds similarities between what I have said and themselves. If you are offended, perhaps it is true.

Please, spare us your philosophical/political oratory.
This forum is not the place for it.

Look. If player is smart enough to purchase low and sell high, does that make him corrupt?
Example. I purchased a stormbow q8 15% stance the other day at 30k. The seller was impatient and just wanted the cash. I turned around, modded it up, and advertised it on Guru auction for two weeks, and sold it for 210k.

Where is the immorality in that? Excuse me, but where? Where are your misplaced notions of morality and economy in this circumstance? Because I have more patience than the other guy, I should be punished?

"Moral behavior" There's nothing immoral about intelligence. It's not a scam to buy low and sell high, it's admirable patience.

Morally correct? More like economically a trainwreck.

Bithor the Dog · Jul 27, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Please, spare us your philosophical/political oratory.
This forum is not the place for it.

Look. If player is smart enough to purchase low and sell high, does that make him corrupt?
Example. I purchased a stormbow q8 15% stance the other day at 30k. The seller was impatient and just wanted the cash. I turned around, modded it up, and advertised it on Guru auction for two weeks, and sold it for 210k.

Where is the immorality in that? Excuse me, but where? Where are your misplaced notions of morality and economy in this circumstance? Because I have more patience than the other guy, I should be punished?

"Moral behavior" There's nothing immoral about intelligence. It's not a scam to buy low and sell high, it's admirable patience.

Morally correct? More like economically a trainwreck.

Seconded...
Id not thought of that side of the argument Snow
I sometimes mod up items and sell on. So if im modding up AT MY EXPENSE...then sell on at a higher price, im now a hedonistic scammer huh?...well so be it...me and about 2.5 million other players too, by the sound of it. Using this awful idea, that would stop me doing that.

oh and ya know i apologise for making a mistake over the minority thing...lets call it a ratio instead ...the ratio of not signed to signed is higher, therefore its not liked by this community posting in this thread....there...more matter of fact for ya.
Fine go ahead and do your moral thing if thats YOUR morals...im a freethinker..so that also means i dont need or have to abide by anyone elses morals no matter what they think, so please spare me the philosophical rubbish and real life comparisons. if i want to i can if i dont want to i wont abide...so what...go ahead...flame this thread even more if you like as it will only get you a warning from the mods as im getting tired of hearing the bleeding heart stories.
You are talking down to people in this thread as if they MUST abide by YOUR moral codes and conducts...who the heck are you to tell anyone what they should and shouldnt do in life...in fact id say go get one....

Calling anyone who trades, hedonistic scammers, and that they are on some personal ego trip...what the heck? who the hell do you think you are calling out names and branding people in such a fashion.
Well sorry , what youve said is against my morals and i dont like that one bit...so you have now got to abide by them and do what we all want..hmmm?...shoe on other foot not fitting so good?
kthnx buhbye now

Fitz Rinley · Jul 29, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Snow Bunny:

Quote:

Fitz Rinley:
But this idea is liked by anyone who wants to see a fair and moral behavior in the game with equal opportunity to express what one enjoys being in a style and manner that limit exploitation of players by Playas. And I am sorry if you decide any of this garment is cut to your fit, but not sorry enough to appologize if someone finds similarities between what I have said and themselves. If you are offended, perhaps it is true.

Please, spare us your philosophical/political oratory. This forum is not the place for it.

No and bull. There is never a social environment that is not the place for ethical action. Further, an axiom of the Jesuits, “No economic decision can be made that does not have ethical and social consequences.”

Quote:

Look. If player is smart enough to purchase low and sell high, does that make him corrupt?
Example. I purchased a stormbow q8 15% stance the other day at 30k. The seller was impatient and just wanted the cash. I turned around, modded it up, and advertised it on Guru auction for two weeks, and sold it for 210k.

In this case I would say you supported the EULA violation market that comes from those who buy gold on-line. No one, I repeat, No one, can have that kind of money unless they have violated the EULA and are therefore criminals in intent, if not in fact. If they did not violate it directly, they have received their wealth trading on the expectation of gain in the corrupt system: placing their prices at levels or accepting payment at levels that only stem from the illicit actions.

Quote:

"Moral behavior" There's nothing immoral about intelligence. It's not a scam to buy low and sell high, it's admirable patience.

Intelligence is amoral, what one does with it is a moral or immoral action. Further, a part of the essential elements of information that make up intelligent economy, is avoidance of excesses or moderating one’s expections. Buying low and selling high is moral if and only if the prices remain ceteris paribus and keep egalitee of quid pro quo among all players.

Quote:

Morally correct? More like economically a trainwreck.

The only way to observe equity of enjoyment for all players as a train-wreck is to find satisfaction in superiority/ego tripping over and against others who also paid for their copy of the game. Equity does not mean all players must have the same appearance and commit to the same actions, but that they all have equal access to the appearances they want and the entertainment they are seeking without having it restricted or controlled out of their power by other players. Egregious pricing and sales, like your 210k for a bow, fits exactly into this category.

Quote:

Bithor the Dog:
Fine go ahead and do your moral thing if thats YOUR morals...im a freethinker..so that also means i dont need or have to abide by anyone elses morals no matter what they think,…

First, moral relativism is the absolute lack of moral foundation. All neo-modern philosophies so based lack any fundamental reason to prevent genocidal concentration camps, murder, theft, sexual assault, etc. Afterall, it is the Free-thinkers right to disregard all such conventions as they have a separate morality from the truly ethical. So, all of your argument from there down only supports a hedonistic anarchism as a basis for life and gaming.

Quote:

I sometimes mod up items and sell on. So if im modding up AT MY EXPENSE...then sell on at a higher price, im now a hedonistic scammer huh?...well so be it...me and about 2.5 million other players too, by the sound of it. Using this awful idea, that would stop me doing that.

You again argue that because everyone else is throwing Jews into the ovens it should be ok for anyone to do it. It is the same logic pattern. Still, Popularity of an action does not make it morally correct. Improving an item for resale is not an issue. The excessive destruction of game enjoyment: the turning of an adventure into hours upon hours of mindless farming and street corner racketeering just to get a skin or mod is wrong; no matter how many people have gotten caught up in it just because everyone else is.

Diddy bow · Jul 29, 2007, 09:55 AM // 09:55

/notsigned

With out people who buy low and sell high the economy would die very quickly. And if person A offers person B what person B wants for it Whats the matter with A selling it rather than using it...

I was hoping for somthing cool like account wide customisation

Fitz Rinley · Jul 29, 2007, 01:22 PM // 13:22

The proposal doesn't eliminate sales form person A to person B. It limits the excesses that now exist only to support the outrageous and scammers.